• Feminist Frequency @femfreq The Avengers' Black Widow is not subverting any sexist stereotypes, she's clearly just the tired old femme fatale trope.
  
  12:55 PM 9 May 12
  
• Mophead F @mopheadf I'm not accustomed to the Femme Fatale having a lead combat role or besting her partner in CQC (close quarters combat).
  
  12:57 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Anthony Oliveira @oliveiranth Black Widow doesn't subvert sexist stereotypes; she uses them as an extremely effective weapon. That is remarkable if not PC. (cc @Femfreq)
  
  12:58 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq .@oliveiranth Black Widow uses faked emotions and pseudo vulnerability to manipulate men into giving her information, it's not remarkable.
  
  1:00 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Anthony Oliveira @oliveiranth @femfreq Except that when she does it, the audience cheers. She is a standard femme fatale, w the notable difference of being the hero.
  
  1:02 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @oliveiranth The audience also cheered when Thresh based [sic] in Clove's head and killed her during the Hunger Games...
  
  1:03 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Anthony Oliveira @oliveiranth @femfreq well, bc the audience in that case was horrible. My point is that the mechanics of the story do not punish her for her "womanly" wiles that when she does it, the audience cheers.
  
  1:04 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Mophead F @mopheadf @femfreq @oliveiranth Sad to see feminists devaluing women's labour, skills and contributions, even in fiction.
  
  1:04 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Anthony Oliveira @oliveiranth @mopheadf @femfreq yes precisely; prescribing how women shld/shld not use their bodies makes them no better than the ideology we claim to oppose.
  
  1:06 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @oliveiranth No, she's not punished, and that's good, but she's still a stereotypical sexist trope, regardless of whether she's "likeable"
  
  1:06 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @mopheadf @oliveiranth It's possible to like Black Widow or even The Avengers movie & acknowledge she's fulfilling a sexist trope.
  
  1:07 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Anthony Oliveira @oliveiranth @femfreq Yes, she is - and acknowledged as one. She is explicitly a "Black Widow." But that's low-hanging fruit.
  
  1:08 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Anthony Oliveira @oliveiranth @femfreq @mopheadf Ah, well, that's different. But you called her "a tired old" sexist trope. She isn't that; she is a fascinating revision.
  
  1:09 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Anthony Oliveira @oliveiranth @femfreq @mopheadf She says "love is a game for children." I suspect she would say the same about political correctness.
  
  1:11 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @oliveiranth "Politically Correct" is a term by the right to silence conversations about oppression and privilege.
  
  1:14 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Anthony Oliveira @oliveiranth @femfreq @mopheadf My point is merely that BW values efficacy over ideology, and the story rewards, not punishes that ethos.
  
  1:19 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Mophead F @mopheadf @oliveiranth @femfreq I would also say that Black Widow displays a lot of consciousness, using sexist stereotypes to her advantage.
  
  1:25 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @mopheadf I don't think it's valuable or honorable for females to use "sexist stereotypes to her advantage". It's still sexist.
  
  1:37 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Mophead F @mopheadf .@femfreq She understands that she lives in a sexist society and uses the villians' assumptions about women against them.
  
  1:39 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Sandra @rhiannon1307 @femfreq So you're basically denying her the right to use a certain talent and ability? Hm. Somehow can't see how that makes you a feminist.
  
  1:40 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @mopheadf That doesn't mean she isn't still doing SEXISM...or rather, isn't still written as actively participating in sexism.
  
  1:40 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Mophead F @mopheadf .@femfreq Are you saying that her way of using subterfuge to gain intel is a sexist act?
  
  1:42 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @rhiannon1307 Your questioning my feminist cred because I think that using fake emotions to manipulate men is a sexist narrative trope?!
  
  1:42 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Sandra @rhiannon1307 @femfreq Yes I am. Becasue you're implying one form of feminity is superior to the other. And, furthermore, you're implying (cont)
  
  1:43 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Sandra @rhiannon1307 @femfreq that to be a 'credible feminist' a woman cannot use her feminity to her advantage and should act like a man.
  
  1:44 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Sandra @rhiannon1307 @femfreq Which, in my book, is quite anti-feminist. But maybe you and I have a different interpretation of the term.:)
  
  1:44 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @rhiannon1307 I am arguing against sexist representations of women who use their sexuality/vulnerability as a weapon.
  
  1:49 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Sandra @rhiannon1307 @femfreq Um yes, I'm seeing that. I'm just wondering why you're doing that as it makes no sense whatso-fucking-ever. But alright ^^
  
  1:50 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Feminist Frequency @femfreq @rhiannon1307 I also made a video about this topic "The Evil Demon Seductress" youtube.be/_VeCjm1UO4M
  
  Unknown 9 May 12
  
  
• Sandra @rhiannon1307 @femfreq Thank you, but I really don't care.
  
  1:50 PM 9 May 12
  
  
• Mophead F @mopheadf .@femfreq @rhiannon1307 Nice vid, but now I'm seeing dehumanization on top of devaluation.
  
  1:55 PM 9 May 12